Comments for Growing Your Church http://growingyourchurch.com Contextual Church Growth Resources Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:29:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= Comment on 5 Reasons Why Christians Should Tithe by mark http://growingyourchurch.com/45/fivereasons-christians-should-tithe#comment-427 mark Sat, 04 Feb 2012 00:29:47 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/stewardship/5-reasons-why-christians-should-tithe/#comment-427 concerning davids comment to russ. people like to use this text to say that jesus commanded tithing. they think that because this passage is in matthew that it seems to fall under the heading of new testements. but hebrews 9:16-18 says that where there is a testement there must also be the death of the testor,for a testement is in force AFTER men are dead since it has no power at all while the testor lives. therfore since jesus had not yet died it is only logical that he was talking about the old covent law,which he himself was under, remember he came to fulfill the law. if one wishes to tithe thats between him and the Lord, but dont say that it is new testement law, see also acts 15 concerning davids comment to russ. people like to use this text to say that jesus commanded tithing. they think that because this passage is in matthew that it seems to fall under the heading of new testements. but hebrews 9:16-18 says that where there is a testement there must also be the death of the testor,for a testement is in force AFTER men are dead since it has no power at all while the testor lives. therfore since jesus had not yet died it is only logical that he was talking about the old covent law,which he himself was under, remember he came to fulfill the law. if one wishes to tithe thats between him and the Lord, but dont say that it is new testement law, see also acts 15

]]> Comment on Are We Stealing Sheep To Fuel Church Growth? by Phillip Wine http://growingyourchurch.com/46/stealing-sheep-fuel-church-growth#comment-424 Phillip Wine Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:00:02 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/ministry/are-we-stealing-sheep-to-fuel-church-growth/#comment-424 Interesting article. Some things I do have a different thought on though. I am a pastor of a small church. My goal is to reach the lost. I have a firm belief that if a person is attending a church that preaches the gospel and believes that the only way to salvation is through a relation with Jesus Christ than I do not seek to have them in my church. What you say about all the growth of the pentecostal churches in Latin America is wrong though. I have been there. First of all, most of the "catholics" there do not believe that they are going to heaven solely based on what Jesus did. They think that they might make it if they are good enought and do the right things. Salvation is not based on works but faith in Christ. So if a pentecostal or other evangelical church has growth because a catholic person found Christ, that church is seeking the lost. Much of the growth also does actually come from unchurched people. I have been there doing street ministry to kids in the street. From both sources, the LOST are being found. Interesting article.
Some things I do have a different thought on though. I am a pastor of a small church. My goal is to reach the lost. I have a firm belief that if a person is attending a church that preaches the gospel and believes that the only way to salvation is through a relation with Jesus Christ than I do not seek to have them in my church.

What you say about all the growth of the pentecostal churches in Latin America is wrong though. I have been there. First of all, most of the “catholics” there do not believe that they are going to heaven solely based on what Jesus did. They think that they might make it if they are good enought and do the right things. Salvation is not based on works but faith in Christ. So if a pentecostal or other evangelical church has growth because a catholic person found Christ, that church is seeking the lost.

Much of the growth also does actually come from unchurched people. I have been there doing street ministry to kids in the street.

From both sources, the LOST are being found.

]]> Comment on 5 Reasons Why Christians Should Tithe by gerry http://growingyourchurch.com/45/fivereasons-christians-should-tithe#comment-408 gerry Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:57:16 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/stewardship/5-reasons-why-christians-should-tithe/#comment-408 the main reason we pay tithes is that as citizens of the kingdom of Heaven we can preach the gospel all around the world and to take care of those that are least fortunate than us when we give to the poor we lend to the lord the tithe is just a word that means (taxes) paying 10% tax on everything we have thats the only way the kingdom will grow i live in canada i do not have a say how much tax i pay or gets deducted from my paycheck christians accept this practice to pay there taxes to the government but to with hold them from God i do not understand i do believe that those that do not do not have the revelation of it imagine standing before jesus when he says DEPART FROM ME I DO NOT KNOW YOU AND YOU SAY WHAT DID I MISS HE SAYS YOU FORGOT TO TITHE and you never see him again the main reason we pay tithes is that as citizens of the kingdom of Heaven we can preach the gospel all around the world and to take care of those that are least fortunate than us when we give to the poor we lend to the lord the tithe is just a word that means (taxes) paying 10% tax on everything we have thats the only way the kingdom will grow i live in canada i do not have a say how much tax i pay or gets deducted from my paycheck christians accept this practice to pay there taxes to the government but to with hold them from God i do not understand i do believe that those that do not do not have the revelation of it
imagine standing before jesus when he says DEPART FROM ME I DO NOT KNOW YOU AND YOU SAY WHAT DID I MISS HE SAYS YOU FORGOT TO TITHE and you never see him again

]]> Comment on 5 Reasons Why Christians Should Tithe by gerry http://growingyourchurch.com/45/fivereasons-christians-should-tithe#comment-407 gerry Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:27:42 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/stewardship/5-reasons-why-christians-should-tithe/#comment-407 i think the problem people see in tithing is that it is mentioned more in the old testament . Tithing in the old testment there were three tithes , no one mentions that u could borrow from your tithes but who must pay it back 5 percent interest . or if u had a lots of crops that would not make the trip u would exchange them for money and buy what ever your hearts desire was . abraham giving to melchezidek was an example giving to christ its an everlasting covent , why we do not see tithing in the new covenant is because its covered in the old testament and tithing is before the law . when jesus was on the earth he was talking to old covenant people the new covenant does not start till the holy spirit came to the upper room . i think the problem people see in tithing is that it is mentioned more in the old testament . Tithing in the old testment there were three tithes , no one mentions that u could borrow from your tithes but who must pay it back 5 percent interest . or if u had a lots of crops that would not make the trip u would exchange them for money and buy what ever your hearts desire was . abraham giving to melchezidek was an example giving to christ its an everlasting covent , why we do not see tithing in the new covenant is because its covered in the old testament and tithing is before the law .

when jesus was on the earth he was talking to old covenant people the new covenant does not start till the holy spirit came to the upper room .

]]> Comment on Are We Stealing Sheep To Fuel Church Growth? by Gospel bearer http://growingyourchurch.com/46/stealing-sheep-fuel-church-growth#comment-406 Gospel bearer Sun, 11 Dec 2011 02:10:03 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/ministry/are-we-stealing-sheep-to-fuel-church-growth/#comment-406 All I can say is...Your response is EXCELLENT! Inspired by the Holy Spirit! All I can say is…Your response is EXCELLENT! Inspired by the Holy Spirit!

]]> Comment on Are We Stealing Sheep To Fuel Church Growth? by Stephen L http://growingyourchurch.com/46/stealing-sheep-fuel-church-growth#comment-405 Stephen L Sun, 04 Dec 2011 23:51:05 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/ministry/are-we-stealing-sheep-to-fuel-church-growth/#comment-405 Hi Marvia. I have recently left my church of 7 years. In the best possible way, I expressed my frustration with the "christian fellowship" label but experiencing growing pentecostal type practises - tongues, encouraging us to do miracles, hyped worship etc. It didnt go down too well. I guess I felt misled and disappointed. But no-one seemed too bothered about pursuing me, not that I needed that, but where's the love? I miss fellowship but it's different now, I don't really belong in any church I know, a bit frustrating sometimes. anyway, you take care and God bless you. Stephen. Hi Marvia. I have recently left my church of 7 years. In the best possible way, I expressed my frustration with the “christian fellowship” label but experiencing growing pentecostal type practises – tongues, encouraging us to do miracles, hyped worship etc. It didnt go down too well. I guess I felt misled and disappointed. But no-one seemed too bothered about pursuing me, not that I needed that, but where’s the love? I miss fellowship but it’s different now, I don’t really belong in any church I know, a bit frustrating sometimes. anyway, you take care and God bless you. Stephen.

]]> Comment on Are We Stealing Sheep To Fuel Church Growth? by Tim Kurtz http://growingyourchurch.com/46/stealing-sheep-fuel-church-growth#comment-403 Tim Kurtz Mon, 28 Nov 2011 01:11:25 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/ministry/are-we-stealing-sheep-to-fuel-church-growth/#comment-403 The ‘performance based hype church’ has at its core a reliance upon exciting the flesh. We subtly embrace accommodation over regeneration. Emotionalism and sensationalism have been falsely labeled as the anointing. Therefore we see people migrating from ‘church to church’ looking for the latest fad to satisfy the flesh. This is not new. The churches today are filled with modern day Athenians looking for the latest religious fad (Acts 17:21). To make things worse, manipulative leaders put out the bait to draw the weak. The weak in turn gobble up the bait and believe they are ‘being fed’. In the end no souls are won to Jesus Christ. When we started our work nearly 20 years ago, the Lord clearly instructed me not to invite anyone to join us. EVERYONE who is a part of our church is there because they believe God sent them there. If they believe God said to leave, then they are free to do so. What is sad is that very few leave to expand the Kingdom. They simply go join another church they believe is more exciting. In nearly 20 years, of all the people who have left our work, less than 5 did so correctly. Most leave mad or looking for a platform to perform their ministry, or for the classic reason “I’m not being fed”. Yes, people have come to our church disgruntled and complaining about the last place they left. I have learned that whatever complaints they have about the last place is what they expect me to satisfy. If they claim they weren’t being fed in their last church – then they expect me to give them what they want to hear. That usually ends when I confront their sin. If they claim their ministry wasn’t recognized in their last church – that means they expect me to give them a platform in our church. If they claim their last pastor was too controlling, that means they don’t want any guidelines from me. The reason few pastors deal with this is because most are looking for ways to survive. They guise filling the pews with ‘saving souls’. That is why they eagerly accept transplants rather than converts. They know the more people they can attract, the more financially solvent their church will be. More money means they can produce bigger programs and give them the ability to erect larger buildings. These pastors know that people in the pews add to the perks of the pastoral system – a system that is not even found in scripture. In other words – to many pastors, people equate to money. I love the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not the buildings, but the ‘called out assembly’ that Jesus purchased with His blood (Acts 20:28). Whenever Jesus is not enough to satisfy, then the search for the fleshly exciting will take its place. The church is commanded to be fruitful, to multiply, to replenish the earth and subdue it (Genesis 1:28). I am committed to the values and structure of the church seen in the New Testament scriptures. A church where souls are added daily (Acts 2:47). A church where the Word of God is demonstrated (Acts 12:24; 19:20). And above all, a church that the gates of hell has no capacity against it (Matthew 16:18). The ‘performance based hype church’ has at its core a reliance upon exciting the flesh. We subtly embrace accommodation over regeneration. Emotionalism and sensationalism have been falsely labeled as the anointing. Therefore we see people migrating from ‘church to church’ looking for the latest fad to satisfy the flesh. This is not new. The churches today are filled with modern day Athenians looking for the latest religious fad (Acts 17:21). To make things worse, manipulative leaders put out the bait to draw the weak. The weak in turn gobble up the bait and believe they are ‘being fed’. In the end no souls are won to Jesus Christ.
When we started our work nearly 20 years ago, the Lord clearly instructed me not to invite anyone to join us. EVERYONE who is a part of our church is there because they believe God sent them there. If they believe God said to leave, then they are free to do so. What is sad is that very few leave to expand the Kingdom. They simply go join another church they believe is more exciting. In nearly 20 years, of all the people who have left our work, less than 5 did so correctly. Most leave mad or looking for a platform to perform their ministry, or for the classic reason “I’m not being fed”.
Yes, people have come to our church disgruntled and complaining about the last place they left. I have learned that whatever complaints they have about the last place is what they expect me to satisfy. If they claim they weren’t being fed in their last church – then they expect me to give them what they want to hear. That usually ends when I confront their sin. If they claim their ministry wasn’t recognized in their last church – that means they expect me to give them a platform in our church. If they claim their last pastor was too controlling, that means they don’t want any guidelines from me.
The reason few pastors deal with this is because most are looking for ways to survive. They guise filling the pews with ‘saving souls’. That is why they eagerly accept transplants rather than converts. They know the more people they can attract, the more financially solvent their church will be. More money means they can produce bigger programs and give them the ability to erect larger buildings. These pastors know that people in the pews add to the perks of the pastoral system – a system that is not even found in scripture. In other words – to many pastors, people equate to money.
I love the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not the buildings, but the ‘called out assembly’ that Jesus purchased with His blood (Acts 20:28). Whenever Jesus is not enough to satisfy, then the search for the fleshly exciting will take its place. The church is commanded to be fruitful, to multiply, to replenish the earth and subdue it (Genesis 1:28). I am committed to the values and structure of the church seen in the New Testament scriptures. A church where souls are added daily (Acts 2:47). A church where the Word of God is demonstrated (Acts 12:24; 19:20). And above all, a church that the gates of hell has no capacity against it (Matthew 16:18).

]]> Comment on 5 Reasons Why Christians Should Tithe by Wes Gibbs http://growingyourchurch.com/45/fivereasons-christians-should-tithe#comment-401 Wes Gibbs Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:12:15 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/stewardship/5-reasons-why-christians-should-tithe/#comment-401 Its interesting, Marvia, that the word, "tithe", only appears in the title. I am against the use of the term, as it clouds the issue of "giving". There is no scriptural basis/evidence for Christian Tithing.[At least I cannot find it!!]. I am totally ashamed of some preachers/pastors/ministers etc insist that every member of the church give 10% of their gross income to the church - yet, some of these ministers "own" plenty homes, exotic cars, and much more. And, at the same time, some of the "tithers" in the church are struggling to "make ends meet". A disgrace!! I take the view of John Wesley - "Earn all you can, save all you can, give all you can". We also need to feed the thousands in our community - and a little bread and fish is all we need - We just need to offer it to Christ and give thanks. Its interesting, Marvia, that the word, “tithe”, only appears in the title. I am against the use of the term, as it clouds the issue of “giving”. There is no scriptural basis/evidence for Christian Tithing.[At least I cannot find it!!]. I am totally ashamed of some preachers/pastors/ministers etc insist that every member of the church give 10% of their gross income to the church – yet, some of these ministers “own” plenty homes, exotic cars, and much more. And, at the same time, some of the “tithers” in the church are struggling to “make ends meet”. A disgrace!! I take the view of John Wesley – “Earn all you can, save all you can, give all you can”. We also need to feed the thousands in our community – and a little bread and fish is all we need – We just need to offer it to Christ and give thanks.

]]> Comment on 5 Reasons Why Christians Should Tithe by David http://growingyourchurch.com/45/fivereasons-christians-should-tithe#comment-397 David Sat, 15 Oct 2011 23:35:47 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/stewardship/5-reasons-why-christians-should-tithe/#comment-397 I've never seen a faithful that regreated it. And yes I mean money. Let's hear from those who give over 10% of their income to the Lord and yet don't tithe. I’ve never seen a faithful that regreated it. And yes I mean money. Let’s hear from those who give over 10% of their income to the Lord and yet don’t tithe.

]]> Comment on 5 Reasons Why Christians Should Tithe by David http://growingyourchurch.com/45/fivereasons-christians-should-tithe#comment-396 David Sat, 15 Oct 2011 23:27:02 +0000 http://growingyourchurch.com/stewardship/5-reasons-why-christians-should-tithe/#comment-396 Russ have you considered the texts Matt 23:23, Luke 11:42 ? Russ have you considered the texts Matt 23:23, Luke 11:42 ?

]]>